This post is going to be a little
different. For my final project in my World Religions class, my professor gave
us a choice of possible topics. The topic I chose had the following
description:
"Imagine that you are in a coffee
shop and you meet the following three characters: (i) Adbul, a dedicated
Muslim, (ii) Peter, a dedicated Christian, and (iii) an agnostic seeker or
group of agnostic seekers. As you enter into conversation with these individuals,
the seeker asks whether or Christianity or Islam--and the Bible or the
Qur'an--is true, and whether the Christians or the Muslims have a more accurate
interpretation of Jesus. Then research this topic so that you can create a
dialogue that accurately represents what Abdul and Peter would say to this
question."
In order to create the “dialogue” in a way
that made sense to me, I completed the project in the form of a play, but using
MLA8 style for the works cited page. I don’t know how much of the format will
translate to the blog, so if anyone would like their own copy of the play to
read, or if you get crazy and want to perform it at church, feel free to send
me a note and I will more than happily send you a copy.
Without further ado, I present, The Café Conversation
(I spent probably all of ten seconds thinking up that title, so I apologize if
it doesn’t draw you in.)
The
Café Conversation
__________________________
A
Dialogue about Christianity and Islam in one scene.
by
Robert
Dietrich
Cast of Characters
Abdul
bin Muhammad: A dedicated
Muslim
Peter
Jonasson: A
dedicated Christian
Michael
Wendell: An
agnostic seeker
Rob
Dietrich: A
mature Christian
Scene
A
coffeehouse.
Time
The
Present.
ACT I
Scene 1
SETTING: We are
in a coffeehouse typical of college areas and arts districts. There are an
eclectic mixture of furniture including couches, loveseats, chairs, lamps, and
tables that, while mismatched, seem to go together and give the café a
comfortable homey feel that says, “stay awhile, talk, and enjoy your coffee.”
On the walls are a likewise eclectic collection of prints, recreations of
famous art, original paintings by local artists, and various photography. The
windows look out on a quiet street with historic buildings. The view is
somewhat obscured by flyers advertising local events—everything from political
rallies to performing arts events. There is also a giant corkboard adjacent to
the entrance with a printed banner that reads, “Place Notices Here.” The rest
of the corkboard is covered business cards, advertisements, and other examples
of the patrons taking the banner’s advice.
AT RISE: ABDUL
BIN MUHAMMAD, PETER JONASSON, and MICHAEL WENDELL are sitting at a café table
in the middle of the coffee house engaged in a spirited, but friendly
conversation. ROB DIETRICH is at the counter waiting for his order. ABDUL is
dressed in the traditional Islamic garb consisting of a grey kurta worn over
loose fitting cotton pants and a black and grey embroidered kufi. He has a
short haircut and a scraggly young man’s beard. PETER, a Christian, advertises
his faith with a black NOT OF THIS WORLD T-shirt which he wears untucked over
denim pants and flipflops. MICHAEL, a little more serious westerner, wears an
oxford style button-down shirt, khaki slacks and Sperry Topsiders. ROB is
dressed unassumingly, in a Mexican guayabera over khaki cargo pants and gently
worn sneakers.
PETER
(slightly exasperated)
How
can you say that?
MICHAEL
Hey,
guys. We’ve been having a friendly conversation so far, let’s try and keep it
that way.
PETER
You’re
right.
(To ABDUL)
We’ve
had this conversation before. I know what you are going to say, I guess I just
get frustrated.
(ROB has gotten his order and seeing ABDUL
and PETER walks to their table)
ROB
(sitting)
What’s
up, guys?
PETER
I
was talking to Michael after our philosophy class today because the subject of God
came up.
ROB
(shakes MICHAEL’S hand)
Nice
to meet you Michael.
MICHAEL
You
too. So, Peter said some interesting things in class I had never considered
before and I wanted to ask him some questions.
ABDUL
And
I overheard Peter inviting Michael to coffee to talk about Christianity and
thought that Michael could use another perspective.
ROB
So,
what’s the problem. It looked like you were having a nice conversation when I
came in, but it looked like things were about to get a bit heated just now.
MICHAEL
Well,
I have always had this sort of undefined belief that God could exist and if he
did, all religions are essentially just different ways of trying to figure out
who he is, but Peter said something to the effect of “If God exists and wanted
us to worship Him, why would He just let us flounder about in uncertainty? If
God is good, He would want us to know about Him and if He is all powerful, He
would let us know the Truth.” Then he said that he thought that truth was in
the Bible.
ABDUL
And
of course, I disagree with that premise.
PETER
(rolling eyes)
Of
course, you do.
MICHAEL
(to PETER, calmly pleading)
Come
on man.
PETER
Rob.
You’ve been a Christian a while, taught Sunday school and stuff what do you
think?
ROB
I
agree with your premise that God would want us to know about Him, that He would
provide us with a revelation of who He is and how He wants us to relate to Him,
and that He has done that in two ways: Through His Word in the Bible, and in
the person of Jesus Christ.
ABDUL
How
do you support your position?
ROB
If
you’ll allow me.
(reaches into his backpack and pulls out a
tablet and taps the screen)
I
would like to read you a verse from the book of Acts—Acts 1:8, “He presented
himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them
during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.” The Bible is our best
source of information about the life, ministry, death, resurrection, and
ascension of Christ, and it even says there are proofs for this.
ABDUL
How
can you trust the Bible? It has been retranslated and changed so many times
over the years. The Qur’an, on the other hand, is pure. The Prophet, peace be
upon him, has stated in Sura 18:1, “Praise to Allah, who has sent down upon His
Servant the Book and has not made therein any deviance.” All current copies
have been translated from the original so that the Qur’an today is the
preserved form of the original. The Prophet, peace be upon him, also stated at
the end of Sura 85, “But this is an honored Qur’an, inscribed in a Preserved
Slate.” So, the Qur’an clearly has the more reliable record regarding the
Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him.
PETER
The
Bible has its claims of preservation too. Psalm 12:6-7 for instance says, “The
words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground,
purified seven times. You, O Lord, will keep them; you will guard us from this
generation forever.”
MICHAEL
But
just saying that they’re preserved doesn’t mean they are.
ROB
Michael
brings up a good point. It’s not enough to just say the Bible or the Qur’an are
preserved, we must look at the evidence of preservation and what methods have
been used to preserve these books. There is a branch of scholarship called
textual criticism that examines ancient works of literature to attempt to determine
what the original works were like to the highest level of accuracy.
MICHAEL
How
do textual critics determine the accuracy of ancient works?
ROB
Well,
they examine all the available ancient copies, paying particular attention to
the oldest copies available. In the case of the New Testament, there are almost
6,000 manuscripts in Greek, the language the New Testament was written in and
many of those manuscripts were written in the second century (Taylor). Just a
few years ago, a Greek manuscript fragment of the gospel of Mark was discovered
that dates to the first century (Wallace). In addition to the Greek
manuscripts, there are around 20,000 manuscripts in other languages, hundreds
of which date to the early second century (McDowell 34-38). The next thing that
textual critics do is they compare all the texts, which is a big job when you
realize that there are nearly 26,000 ancient texts to look at, and try to
figure out what the original said (“Textual”). The current consensus among
biblical textual critics is better than 99% certainty about the accuracy of the
New Testament text with none of the variations being of any real significance
to theology (Weldon).
ABDUL
Ah,
but the Qur’an is 100% accurate.
ROB
I’m
going to have to respectfully disagree. After Muhammad’s death, even Muslim
scholars will tell you that there was no single copy of the Qur’an. The first
Caliph, Abu-Bakr charged Zayd to collect all the chapters and verses of the
Qur’an to create a single book. By the time of Caliph Uthman, just twenty years
later, there were multiple variants of the Qur’an being used, so Uthman ordered
the Qur’an to be standardized. The problem is that when early manuscripts of
the Qur’an are compared, there are thousands of variant readings. There are 150
variant readings in the second Sura alone. Not to mention, there are also
records of verses from early manuscripts that are not contained in modern
versions. This is a point of contention between many sects. The Sunni believe
the modern version of the Qur’an is the most correct. Shi’a Muslims use the
modern version but accuse Caliph Uthman of removing verses that refer to Ali as
the successor of Muhammad (Geisler and Saleeb 191-194). One of the difficulties
facing the Qur’an is that until recently, no critical edition of the Qur’an has
ever been attempted (Small 3).
ABDUL
So
the Uthmanic recension isn’t a critical edition?
ROB
According
to textual critics, no. Right now, the first attempt at creating a critical
edition is underway and scholars are hoping to finish by 2019, but it could
take longer (Schnöpf).
MICHAEL
Are
you saying that the Qur’an is completely unreliable?
ROB
I
wouldn’t say that, no. As a record of what Muhammad taught and believed, it is
definitely a good source, but it fails the test of accuracy and preservation.
ABDUL
But
the fact that the Qur’an has survived to this day should be an indicator of
God’s divine preservation.
ROB
It
could be, but think about how the Bible and Qur’an have been preserved. Both
Islam and Christianity have zealous followers who want to preserve God’s Word.
Christianity and Islam both have strong traditions of scholarship that has
resulted in carefully copying and transmitting the Bible and Qur’an
respectively over time. Despite that, only the Bible can claim 99 percent
accuracy and the Qur’an can’t claim any level of accuracy. Even when the
critical edition is released, how receptive will the current world Muslim
community be? If God had preserved the Qur’an we would expect some measurable
level of accuracy.
ABDUL
That’s
where faith comes in. One must accept the validity and accuracy of the Qur’an
on faith.
MICHAEL
Isn’t
that the case with all religion? Isn’t it all just a matter of faith?
ROB
That
depends on what your definition of “faith” is.
MICHAEL
(thinking)
I
guess my definition is, “Believing in something you can’t explain.”
PETER
I
agree with that. The Bible says, “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped
for, the conviction of things not seen” (Heb. 11:1).
ROB
Having
“conviction of things not seen” is not the same as believing in things without
evidence. Faith must have an object and there must be evidence supporting the
object’s existence if we can’t see it. None of us have met George Washington,
but we don’t blindly believe in his existence because we can examine the
evidence and come to the conclusion that George Washington actually existed. We
can apply that same kind of thinking to determining if we should put our faith
in the Bible or the Qur’an. Paul actually wrote something that applies to both
this discussion and whether or not there is any validity to the entire
Christian faith. He said in I Corinthians 15:14, “And if Christ has not been
raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.” If we put our
faith in something that isn’t true, then our faith has no value. It’s foolish.
ABDUL
Are
you saying I’m a fool for believing in the Qur’an?
ROB
I’m
not trying to be offensive, but I have to admit that it doesn’t make any sense
to believe in something that the evidence doesn’t support.
ABDUL
But
the Qur’an still has the more reliable account of the life of Christ. I mean
the resurrection is just patently ridiculous.
ROB
And
the virgin birth is more believable?
ABDUL
What
do you mean?
ROB
Suras
three and nineteen both affirm the virgin birth of Christ. Sura nineteen is
almost an exact retelling of the annunciation in Luke 2. The Qur’an also
affirms that Jesus lived a sinless life. If we’re going to reject the
resurrection on the basis of logic, why not reject the virgin birth and the
sinless life of Christ, two other things that are humanly impossible?
ABDUL
So
you think the Bible is more accurate describing the life of Christ?
ROB
Of
course I do. The Bible has a better evidence for accuracy and therefore better
evidence for divine preservation. Even if the neither the Bible or the Qur’an
claimed divine origin, I would still trust the Bible more because it was
written just a few years after the ministry of Christ, whereas the Qur’an was
written almost 600 years later and there are some pretty serious deviations
between what the Bible says and what the Qur’an says, namely that Jesus was
neither crucified nor resurrected.
MICHAEL
Whoa,
what? I thought the crucifixion was pretty well established fact.
ABDUL
It’s
not an established fact and it’s not just the Qur’an that says it either. There
are Christian writings that the church has kept hidden from Christians that
prove that Jesus was not crucified, but Judas.
PETER
(scoffs)
Where
do you get that from?
ABDUL
There
is a gospel that was purposefully kept secret from early Christians precisely
because it tells the true story of Jesus. It is called the Gospel of Barnabas.
In it, it tells that when Judas attempted to betray Jesus, he was transformed
into the likeness of Jesus. Jesus was then carried away by four angels who took
him to heaven. Judas was crucified in Jesus’ place and the disciples, thinking
he really had died, stole him from the tomb which made many people believe that
Jesus had risen from the grave. Then Jesus returned and revealed that he had
not died. He commanded Barnabas to write an account of his life, but false
disciples, like Paul perverted his teaching even teaching the heresy of the death
and resurrection of Christ (Gospel of
Barnabas).
PETER
That’s
nonsense. There is no such thing.
ROB
Actually,
what Abdul says is true. There is a work called the Gospel of Barnabas.
PETER
(aghast)
What?
Are you agreeing with Abdul? Are you saying Jesus didn’t rise from the grave?
ROB
I’m
not agreeing with Abdul’s theology, just affirming that there is a work that
claims to have been written by Barnabas.
ABDUL
I’m
surprised you are aware of it as the Church has gone to great lengths to hide
it from Christians.
ROB
If
the Church is trying to hide it, they’re not doing a very good job. I learned
about it in a class I took in Bible college. Plus, since it’s in the public
domain, you can probably download a copy from the internet.
PETER
I’ve
never heard of it, but it’s a real thing?
MICHAEL
Yeah.
That’s news to me too.
ROB
It
is a real document, but it’s not an authentic gospel.
MICHAEL
What
is it then?
ROB
It
is essentially a compilation of biblical gospel stories with a few anachronisms
thrown in. The main deviation is the end, which Abdul has already described
where Judas is crucified instead of Jesus.
MICHAEL
Is
any of it true?
ROB
The
parts that retell the biblical gospel stories are, but like I said, there are
some anachronisms and the ending is way off.
ABDUL
Of
course you would say that. Why do you continue to lead people astray when you
know the truth?
ROB
We
need to look at the evidence again. The earliest copies of the Gospel of
Barnabas are from the 17th century (Wiegers). While I will concede
that there may have been an earlier Gospel of Barnabas, the one in circulation
today could not have been written any earlier than the 7th Century
CE and Barnabas died in the first century. So, I believe, as do most scholars
familiar with the Gospel of Barnabas including prominent Islamic scholars, that
the work was written in the medieval era and is not an authentic work of
Christianity (Leirvik).
MICHAEL
Okay.
I think you have convinced me that the Bible is accurate and that it accurately
portrays what the first Christians believed, but I still have a hard time
reconciling the resurrection with reality.
PETER
Well
that one you have to accept on faith.
ABDUL
The
apostles could have stolen the body.
ROB
They
could have, in fact there are a lot of theories about Jesus’ resurrection
conspiracy theories. The Bible tells us that the Jewish religious leaders
promoted the idea that the disciples stole the body (Matt. 28:13). More
recently, scholars have promoted other ideas about the resurrection of Jesus.
The first is that Jesus was crucified, but didn’t actually die; He merely lost
consciousness on the cross and the Roman guards thought he was actually dead.
MICHAEL
Jesus
passing out is a possibility.
ROB
Not
really.
MICHAEL
Why
not?
ROB
A
lot of research has been done by medical experts on this issue. There have even
been books and peer reviewed papers published on the subject. The description
of the process of Christ’s trial and crucifixion is historically accurate when
it comes to how people who were condemned to crucifixion. The bible says Jesus
was scourged which was done with a device called a flagellum which is several
leather straps embedded with nails, glass, sharp bone, and any other
combination of sharp objects. The subject is whipped across the back, buttocks,
and thighs, and skin is literally ripped from the body. Often, victims of Roman
scourging were disemboweled because the straps would wrap around the front of
the body and even when that didn’t happen, many people died from scourging
alone, possibly by hypovolemic shock or cardiac arrest (Retief and Cilliers).
MICHAEL
That’s
horrific.
ROB
Unfortunately,
it doesn’t end there. The subject of crucifixion was required to carry the
crossbar of the cross, called the patibulum
to the place of crucifixion. Once at the crucifixion site, the subject would be
nailed to the cross with large, square spikes that might not break a person’s
bones, but would definitely spread the wrist bones apart and damage the median
nerve which of course is painful in itself. The feet were then nailed to a
podium called the sedile which was
affixed to the upright portion called the stipes.
The subject would grow tired and would hang from their hands, but that would
make it hard to breathe, so they would lift themselves up by the feet to take a
breath. That would get tiring and eventually, they wouldn’t be able to lift
themselves up anymore and death, if not caused by shock or cardiac arrest, would
be caused by asphyxiation. Depending on how badly a person was scourged, this
process could last for days (Retief and Cilliers). The description of Jesus’
scourging is pretty extreme and even if he didn’t die in the process, one of
the soldiers pierced his side with a spear to verify if he was dead the Bible
describes “blood and water” coming out (John 19:34). When a person slowly
asphyxiates, pericardial fluid, which is clear, builds up around the lungs and
heart. If enough builds up to differentiante two fluids, it is clear that the
subject most likely died of heart failure. Even if by some miracle Jesus wasn’t
dead at that point, the wound from the spear would have been fatal (Thompson).
(The four men sit quietly for a moment.
Even Abdul is touched by the description of the crucifixion)
MICHAEL
How
does a person come back from that?
ROB
Humanly
speaking, you don’t. But we can’t forget that there is an element of the
supernatural involved.
MICHAEL
I
can’t wrap my head around the supernatural, though. There has to be other
explanations.
ROB
Most
of the rest of the theories involve Jesus actually dying. One theory from the
last century was by Kirsopp Lake who said that the women who went to visit
Jesus tomb went to the wrong tomb, but this theory never really gained a
following (Strobel 221). And yet another theory is that the post-resurrection
stories were nothing but mass hallucinations (McDowell 272-279). With very few
exceptions, most scholars throughout history do not deny that the tomb was
actually empty (Perman).
ABDUL
What
about the theory that Jesus’ disciples stole the body from the tomb?
ROB
There
are a few problems with that theory. In fact, there are problems with any
theory that results in an empty tomb, but doesn’t result in a resurrected
Christ. Some people believe that the watch that was set at Jesus’ tomb were
Roman soldiers. Those guys were highly trained and armed and the disciples,
while armed, did not have the training to defeat the Roman soldiers without
taking their own casualties (Gabriel and Metz). If the guard was made up of
temple guards, they would still be more highly trained than the disciples. The
second, and biggest problem with any theory that doesn’t result in a physical
resurrection of Jesus is how the lives of the disciples were changed. Ten of
the original twelve apostles died for their faith (McDowell). Now we know that
there are people who will die for what they believe to be true, but only a very
mentally disturbed person would die for what they know to be a lie. The same
would be true if Jesus had merely swooned, somehow got out of his burial cloth,
rolled away the sealed stone of the tomb, fought his way past the guards, and
then stumbled his way back to where the apostles were. He wouldn’t have
inspired much and definitely wouldn’t have changed the apostles lives to be
willing to die for their beliefs.
MICHAEL
Okay,
so the tomb was empty. That still doesn’t prove the Jesus rose from the grave.
ROB
By
itself it doesn’t, no.
PETER
If
the tomb doesn’t prove Jesus rose from the grave, what does?
ROB
There’s
actually a lot of evidence. First, you have the gospel witnesses themselves.
Matthew and John were both eyewitnesses. Luke wrote his gospel based on a
variety of evidence and was very careful to place his account in a historical
context. Sir William Ramsay who was a professor of archaeology at Oxford
University in the late 19th and early 20th century said,
“Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact
trustworthy...this author should be placed along with the very greatest
historians” (Ramsay 222). By the way, Ramsay was raised as an atheist and
actually entered the archaeological field to disprove Christianity. He was so
impressed by the evidence in favor of Christianity, that he converted and
remained a faithful Christian his entire life.
PETER
Wow!
ROB
And
there’s still more. Mark wrote his gospel account based on information he
learned from Paul who in turn learned it from the eyewitnesses themselves. He
even discusses the witness evidence in his first letter to the Corinthians. He
says, “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that
Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried,
that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that
he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five
hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have
fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of
all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.” (1 Cor. 15:3-8).
MICHAEL
So
what’s the point?
ROB
The
point is that there were people in the church who believed and were teaching
that Jesus hadn’t risen from the dead (1 Cor. 15:12). Paul wrote to the
Corinthians to address a lot of problems, but this was one of the main ones.
Corinth was a very wealthy city (Cartwright). Many of the members of the church
in Corinth were wealthy people and had the means to travel, if they weren’t
traders who traveled regularly already (1 Cor. 1). When Paul tells the
Corinthians about all the witnesses, he knows that there are members in the
church who could easily verify what he is saying. Nobody in their right mind
would mention witness testimony if they weren’t sure their story was going to
be backed up. So, when you look at the empty tomb, the changed lives of the
disciples, and the witness testimony, it’s very hard to deny the resurrection
of Christ.
MICHAEL
I’ve
never heard any of this before.
PETER
I
have to admit, some of this is new to me too.
ABDUL
I
would also like to hear more.
MICHAEL
Abdul!
Are you saying you’re going to convert to Christianity?
ABDUL
What
Rob has said is very compelling. I’m not ready to be baptized and join a
church, but I think I would like to look at Rob’s evidence a little more
closely. If what he can show me documentation that what he is saying is true,
then I must admit, I will have to take the idea of converting very seriously.
PETER
Rob.
Aren’t you going to say anything?
ROB
(slowly, shocked)
I’m
kind of surprised. We’ve had so many conversations Abdul…
ABDUL
I’ve
never really given you time to defend your position. I think if Michael wasn’t
so open to hearing both sides, I wouldn’t have let you talk so much today.
ROB
Well,
maybe we should have a more formal bible study. I have lots of resources at
home and I can recommend some good books.
MICHAEL
I
have to admit, this is all pretty powerful stuff. I mean, it really seems that
the Bible presents Christ in a much more accurate way than the Qur’an and if
you can show me the studies about Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection, I
would be a fool not to take Christianity seriously.
ROB
(clearly excited)
Would
you be willing to come over tonight?
PETER
I’m
down for that. I’ll bring snacks.
(ABDUL and MICHAEL look at each other,
shrug, and nod their heads)
ABDUL
I
have no objection to that.
MICHAEL
Yeah.
I have nothing going on.
ROB
(with outstretched hands)
Can
I pray with you guys?
(the four men grasp hands, bow their heads
and ROB begins whispering in prayer)
(BLACKOUT)
(THE
END)
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Norman L. and Abdul Saleeb. Answering
Islam: The Crescent in the Light of the Cross. Baker Books, 1993.
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Sean. “Did the Apostles Really Die as Martyrs for their Faith?” Biola Magazine. Biola University, 2017, magazine.biola.edu/article/13-fall/did-the-apostles-really-die-as-martyrs-for-their-f.
Accessed 15 April 2017
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